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Morning News

Election 2000: Legal Fight for the White House Far from Over

Aired November 27, 2000 - 11:32 a.m. ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Daryn, quickly here, before we go to the e-mail segment, just getting word from the Gore campaign that Tom Daschle and Dick Gephardt are scheduled to be here. We expect them to meet with reporters. Now being told, they are going to be on a conference telephone call that will be televised now, and they will also have the vice president on the telephone as well. Again, getting those details right now. It is expected at 12:30, which is an hour from hour. But that may or may not change. Stand by for more on that quickly here in Tallahassee. Pardon for the interruption.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: I imagine we will figure out how to wire-up that conference call and play it for our viewers here on CNN.

HEMMER: Yes we will.

KAGAN: We will figure that one out. Back to you in just a second. first an update here.

Three weeks after the disputed presidential election, Florida certifies Governor George W. Bush the winner. The official total giving Bush 2,912,790 votes, Vice President Al Gore 2,912,253. If those numbers sound close, they are indeed very close. The Bush margin of victory, a slim 537 votes.

So the election dispute still goes on, from the circuit court to the U.S. Supreme Court.

And that the legal fight for the White House is far from over. Joining me from Washington: Susan Low Bloch, Georgetown University law professor and constitutional scholar; CNN election analyst David Cardwell, former elections director in Florida; and our senior political analyst, Bill Schneider; and from Tallahassee, our other, Bill Hemmer.

Welcome.

HEMMER: I'll be Bill number two.

KAGAN: OK, Bill number two, with due deference to our Bill Schneider.

First question for our panel here. We were just talking with Frank Sesno picking up. We will get to e-mail in a second. But our first question from Frank Sesno. He was talking about the public's patience and how long the Democrats and Al Gore can go on with that.

Bill Schneider, why don't you pick up from there?

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the question. I am sorry, I couldn't quite see it from where I am sitting.

KAGAN: That was the e-mail. They jumped the gun. We will get to the e-mail in a second. My question to you: Public patience and the Democrats, how do they measure it? how do they play that correctly so they don't overplay that card?

SCHNEIDER: Well, the polls have been asking people, you know, is this running out of time, which is more important, closure or fairness? And consistently, the public has said fairness, fairness, fairness. They want all the votes counted as fairly and as reasonable and as accurately as possible. They don't have any unrealistic expectation.

Look, when we asked the public, do you think we will ever get a completely fair and accurate counting of all the ballots in Florida. They say: No, they don't think that's really possible, but they want it to be as fair as possible.

And everything so far has shown that people are not outraged. They are not hysterical, there are no people demonstrating in the streets expect for a few hard-core partisans on both sides. They're willing to wait and get this process done as reasonable as possible. So the patience is still I think very much there.

KAGAN: Patience and questions. Now let's go to our e-mails -- our questions from our audience, the first question coming to us from A.F. Nariman, and that question is: "Did the Florida Supreme Court "mandate" hand counts, or just leave it up to the individual canvassing boards?"

Susan, why don't you take that question for us.

SUSAN BLOCH, CONSTITUTIONAL LAW PROFESSOR: Well, the question before the Florida Supreme Court was whether, when the secretary of state extended the deadline to allow for hand counting, she was acting within her discretion or not? So, they didn't mandate hand counting. They just ruled that it was OK to extend the deadline so that those counties that were requested hand counting and that chose to do it could proceed.

KAGAN: Question now. We have a caller and the question is about the Electoral College and this caller is calling from California.

Olive (ph), why don't you go ahead, or your question for our guests?

CALLER: Yes, I wonder where John McCain has been, and I would also like to know if there is an outside chance some electorates that are not committed would not vote for George Bush and, therefore, he is not president-elect? KAGAN: Well, David Cardwell, why don't you jump in there about how the electors work in the state of Florida, and how they're obligated to vote for whoever they might vote for?

DAVID CARDWELL, CNN ELECTION LAW ANALYST: In the state of Florida, the electors are chosen based upon the popular vote. That is why we have had so many protests to try to figure out what that is. Under state law, to be an elector, you have to sign an oath that says that you will vote for the candidate of the party that you are, basically, nominated by to be an elector.

So everyone who is a Bush elector has signed an oath saying that they will vote for Bush in the Electoral College. At this point, after the certification last night, the governor sends certificates to the archivists to the United States, called a certificate of ascertainment, which identifies the name of the electors that have been selected pursuant to the Florida process.

KAGAN: And Bill Schneider, why don't you take the first half of Olive's question? She wants to know where has Senator John McCain been?

SCHNEIDER: We get that question a great deal, and it's interesting, because John McCain, though he is a Republican who endorsed and campaigned for George W. Bush, he is perceived as one of the few people in this who could be above partisanship because he is a popular figure in both parties, more than the president of the United States, who of course supports Al Gore; more than former President Bush, whose son is one of the candidate.

So people I think are looking for some voice to be an arbiter to speak to the American people, and the closest a lot of Americans come is McCain, even though he is formally committed to Governor Bush. He hasn't been heard from very much in all of this. I am not sure exactly sure why. Frankly, the only voice that seems to be able to play that role, that we do expect to speak, is the United States Supreme Court, which should speak as the voice of the United States Constitution.

KAGAN: Let's go back to our e-mail. This question is coming to us from Penelope M. And the question here: Can the United States Supreme Court reverse the Florida Supreme Court's decision and invalidate the amended vote totals, making these few weeks of chaos completely useless?"

Susan, you take that one.

BLOCH: Well, it is possible. It's -- but it's uncertain. Well, first of all, there is a question of whether there is a conflict between what the Florida Supreme Court did and federal law. But the Supreme Court then added another question and asked the parties to address: What are the consequences of the Florida Supreme Court's decision, if the U.S. Supreme Court concludes it was illegal?

And because they asked about what the consequences are, it shows that they're not quite sure what the remedy would be if there was an illegality.

KAGAN: Bill Schneider, of course, we are expecting to hear more about this from the U.S. Supreme Court on Friday. What are the chance you think that that is going to happen, given how things are developing in Florida?

SCHNEIDER: Well, they are going to hear arguments on Friday. My guess is, they may not decide until Monday. You know, basically, what the Supreme Court is doing -- and I have discussed this with Professor Bloch, because I could hardly get it straight -- but the idea I think is that it will tell us which of the votes do we regard as authoritative. The initial count announced by the Florida secretary of state of a 300-vote lead for George Bush, amended subsequently by the overseas ballots. So that would be a 930-vote lead. Is that the official vote? or is it the 537 vote lead announced last night by the secretary of state?

Basically, the Supreme Court is going to tell us which of those is the official Florida vote, and I am not sure what connection the Supreme Court's decision would have to any new contests now being brought by Vice President Gore?

BLOCH: I think that it has no relevance...

KAGAN: Go ahead.

BLOCH: ... to the stuff that is starting today, the contest, is going to be unaffected by what the Supreme Court tells us next week.

KAGAN: OK, our next e-mail, is for the top part of our Brady Bunch box up there for Bill and David at top.

This is coming there Sara B. She wants to know: "Is the circuits in Florida, including the actions of both campaigns, going to have an effect on the presidential elections in four years?"

We can broaden the discussion in a moment. But first to Bill number two, my partner Bill Hemmer. What are you hearing on the ground, in terms of the frustration that people have thought on both sides how this election process has played out in Florida, calls for reform, and how they might do thing differently in Florida? Than perhaps, David Cardwell can pick up from there?

HEMMER: I have a couple of thoughts on this, Daryn. I have been thinking and feeling and actually saying for the past three weeks, I think that we'll only really, truly understand the complete fallout from this election in the year 2000 and for this reason. We had about a 50 percent turnout, about 100 million people went to the polls this past November 7th.

It's my belief that, based on what we saw in this election, there is going to be a lot of people who will be indeed disenfranchised because of the system and they will be turned off by this.

I think, on the other side of that coin, a lot of other people are going to interpret this election as, hey, look, it is one vote, and it is one vote that may absolutely make a difference. Again, if this total stands right here, this certification stands up in Florida, you are talking six million votes cast in Florida alone, and a difference of 537 votes.

In four years' time, watch that and weigh it, and see how the American public reacts. It could be a wash. If we are looking at one side balancing the other. But certainly, we will not know for four more years.

KAGAN: And David Cardwell, you have watched elections and been part of them in Florida for a long time. How do you think what has happened over the last three weeks is going to be change how things are done in your state?

CARDWELL: I believe we are going to see some fallout in Florida very soon, probably beginning as early as tomorrow, when the recently created Joint Committee of the House and Senate will be convening to look at sort of what the options are for the legislature. And I think what will come out of that meeting will be some discussion about changes to Florida's elections law.

Certainly when the legislature convenes here in Tallahassee in March, amendments to the election code will probably be a top priority and I'll tell you right now, there will be a lot of bills that are going to be filed to try to correct some of the cliches that we found in the code over the past few weeks.

The other fallout is that we have got an election in this state in two years, in 2002, Governor Bush is up for reelection. There may be some fallout coming out soon? There is already some speculation that, despite his very high popularity ratings, that there may be some Democratic opposition.

KAGAN: And as you shared with us in the past, 2002, that is also when the secretary of state office goes away, is that right, David Cardwell?

CARDWELL: Correct. According to, yes, according to amendments that were done to our state constitution just recently, the secretary of state's office is abolished as an elective office as of 2002, and it is expected then to become an appointed office.

KAGAN: Interesting time, got you all choked up thinking about it. We will have our guests stand by, let David Cardwell -- please somebody get him a little cup of water or something.

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