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Morning News

Election 2000: Judge Decides to Send Disputed Ballots to Tallahassee

Aired November 29, 2000 - 10:04 a.m. ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: We mentioned the courts are a little quiet right now. However, that may or may not last for very long. Over to circuit court now, where we did have a ruling last night, and we expect a trial to begin on Saturday.

Gary Tuchman watching that, and joins us now live with more from there.

Hey, Gary?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello there, Bill. We come to you from the Leon County Circuit Court here in Tallahassee, Florida. Normally this is a place that hears county criminal and civil cases, but now it is the home of litigation that could determine the next president of the United States.

This is where Al Gore has issued his challenge against the results of the 2000 presidential race. Now the trial will begin on Saturday. But before that, his lawyers have asked a judge to immediately start counting disputed vote. There was a hearing held last night and the judge had this response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE N. SAUNDERS SAULS, LEON COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: I have no idea what we're going to do concerning ballots, counting or not counting of ballots. That's going to be dependent upon the -- whatever, if there is any evidence required, or if not, if Mr. Boies is correct, if it's a matter of law, then he won't need to be presenting any evidence at that hearing, and then we will have a determination. We need to look, just in case, to have at least some of the -- it seems to me -- some of the information, in the form of the ballots, perhaps to be on hand, and perhaps in this location.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TUCHMAN: So Judge N. Sanders Sauls says he will wait and see about whether to count. But he did order all the ballots the Gore team wanted to be sent to Tallahassee. That includes 10,500 ballots from Miami-Dade County, ballots the machine showed had no vote for president, but that the Gore team thinks has at least 600 votes for Al Gore, and also 3300 disputed votes from Palm Beach County.

They are all scheduled to arrive here by noon on Friday. A police escort will bring them here.

The judge also wants voting machines from those counties brought in as exhibits. And for tomorrow, the judge says he will hold a hearing to discuss how to count the votes, what standards to use, if he does decide to count the votes. There is a lot of legal wrangling here, as you all know, but there is one basic fact. The Gore team wants these votes counted desperately, the Bush team is doing all it can to stop that from happening.

Bill, back to you.

HEMMER: All right, Gary, thanks. Gary is at circuit court across the street this way.

Across the street behind us, we find CNN's Susan Candiotti watching the state Supreme Court here, where the butterfly ballot again an issue here in Tallahassee.

Hello, Susan, what's happening now?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Bill.

Well, there is no telling when the Florida Supreme Court might rule on a brief it already has, in addition to one -- another one it is expected to receive by about 4:00 this afternoon.

In both cases the issue is Palm Beach County's butterfly ballot. At least one group is calling on the Florida Supreme Court to order up to appoint a brand-new election, a revote because of that ballot. They say the two-page format was confusing to them, confusing because of the punch holes being down the middle, and they say it caused them to vote for the wrong candidate.

They also argue the ballot was illegal because Florida law calls for those punch holes to be located and situated to the right of the candidate's name. They maintain that the current format caused them to vote for the wrong candidate, and in many cases, they say, to vote for Pat Buchanan, instead of Al Gore.

Now, Bush campaign lawyers argue that trying to set up a new election in just one county is unprecedented, unnecessary, undoable and uncalled for. Beside, they argue, this ballot was approved by both parties ahead of time.

Who is right? Well, here are attorneys for both sides in their own words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARY FARMER, JR., PETITIONER'S ATTORNEY: We're hoping that the Florida Supreme Court will, in fact, rule that the butterfly ballot is illegal and will either rule that a new election is constitutional or at least reverse Judge LaBarga's ruling that it's not constitutional and send the case back to him for that determination.

PHIL BECK, BUSH CAMPAIGN ATTORNEY: The law is that if anyone has a concern with the form of the ballot, that has to be expressed before the election, not after the election. It is not according to law, and it is not fair, to wait until the votes have been counted, and then if you don't like the outcome, to say that the ballot -- there was something wrong with the form of the ballot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDIOTTI: Palm Beach County Judge Jorge LaBarga has already rejected the notion of a revote. That has brought the matter now finally before the Florida Supreme Court. It will decide whether to hear arguments on the matter or reject it altogether.

Bill, back to you.

HEMMER: All right, Susan, thank you. We'll watch if all.

Again, live in Tallahassee, again, we will keep a close eye on that special committee too, and what comes out of that regarding a special session.

But for now, back to Atlanta and Daryn and Kyra. See you guys again in a couple minutes.

KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: Sounds good, Bill.

All right, let's get out our long legal pads and try to keep up here, as CNN legal analyst Roger Cossack joins us once again to guide us through this legal maze.

I tell you what, Roger, I'm having a hard time here, my friend.

ROGER COSSACK, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It doesn't get any easier, just when you think it should get easier, it doesn't get easier.

PHILLIPS: All right, well, let's start out talking about this special session. What does this mean? and what could happen here?

COSSACK: Sounds like Inspector Clusoe (ph), when he used to say: What do we know?

PHILLIPS: What do we know?

COSSACK: Well, let me tell you what the special session of the legislature means. Within the Florida laws, there is a provision for the Florida Legislature to call itself into special session, by both the Florida Senate, and called from both the Florida Senate, as well as the Florida House of Representatives. And they have the authority to set up their own set of electorates, to certify their own set of electorates over who won the presidential contest in the state of Florida.

And one of the things they are considering doing that we know about is doing of that, and saying George Bush has won it, and we are certifying 25 electors and choosing 25 electors, who will then go and report to the Congress and say Florida gives 25 votes to George Bush, and we don't care what the Supreme Court of the United States, or the Supreme Court of Florida does. This is what we're doing.

PHILLIPS: Roger, hold that thought, we are going to come right back to you in just a minute here. We are going to go over to Bill Delaney, who is in Palm Beach. He has got an update on what's happening there with the watchdog group.

Go ahead, Bill.

BILL DELANEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, thank you very much. We have just been handed an order, a decision, I should say, by Judge Jorge LaBarga, here in circuit court in Palm Beach County. Ballots are starting to flow up to Leon County for the contest phase of all this.

Democrats, this morning, had asked that the ballots requested by Judge Sauls up in Leon County, from Palm Beach County, be limited to the 3000 to 3600 disputed ballots, that not all 400,000 plus ballots in Palm Beach County be sent up for the contest phase just yet. Well, that's what Judge LaBarga, in his decision, has granted. He has granted the Democratic motion to send only 3600 disputed ballots at this point up for the contest phase.

Now the judge seems to have left it open that if the court in Tallahassee wants all the ballots sent up eventually, all 400,000 plus ballots in Palm Beach County sent up as evidence in the contest phase, he will grant that.

But for now, expect to go into a Brinks truck, and up the road toward Tallahassee, only 3600 or so disputed ballots here in Palm Beach County.

Back to you.

PHILLIPS: All right, Bill, stay with us.

Roger, did you get all that? And if so...

COSSACK: Yes, yes.

PHILLIPS: What do you make of this?

COSSACK: Well, what this is is they are going to do it in stages. The first thing that has to happen is convince the judge in Tallahassee of a couple of things. One is that there is a real dispute here that is legal votes were not counted. And two, they have to convince the judge that even if you do go back and count these ballots, something different than what's happened already would happen.

The judge has called for all the ballots. what the Palm Beach judge has said is: Look, we'll only send you the first 3600. We are leaving it open as to whether or not you get the rest of them, but how about starting with the first 3600 because there is no real reason to send you the rest at this time.

If the judge in Tallahassee says, you know what, send them all, they'll get them all. But I think initially this is probably a very good decision.

PHILLIPS: How would they convince the judge, though? What type of evidence would they need?

COSSACK: To convince the judge that they need more?

PHILLIPS: Yes.

COSSACK: What they are going to have to do and this is what the hearing is is they are going to have to convince that judge that all of these votes are in dispute; that, in fact, that a total recount is needed, that you just can't limit it to those 3600. All those votes of Palm Beach County have to be checked again.

That, I think, is in some way going to be a difficult job to do. First of all, the timing is just, you know, couldn't be worse; and, second of all, there is 3600 votes that are in real dispute at this time. The argument is going to be: Why should we do more than what we have to.

PHILLIPS: And Bill, with regard to that argument, what have you heard? what type of response are you receiving about that?

DELANEY: You know, I couldn't hear you, can you repeat that for me Kyra. Response to what?

PHILLIPS: The point that Roger has made with regard to that argument.

Roger, say that again, I'm sorry.

COSSACK: Bill, what I suppose the argument is is that, look, why should we send up any more than 3600 votes, when these are the votes that are in dispute. There's no need, there is no reason to send up a lot more. First of all, from a timing standpoint, it couldn't be worse, and the time it would take; and second of all, this is really what we are talking about.

PHILLIPS: Bill?

DELANEY: Roger, that's exactly right, sorry I couldn't hear you before. Now, the Republicans and Judicial Watch, that conservative group that had asked for the reexamination of the ballots here, which in some ways has gummed all this up, they had argued that all 400,000 plus should be sent up because they might -- something in that huge pile of votes might eventually be needed in the evidentiary phase of the contest.

Judge LaBarga actually expressed, seeming some sympathy for that position. He seemed reluctant to want to come back early next week possibly to argue again over whether all 400,000 plus should be sent.

I was actually a bit surprised that the judge ruled to send only the 3600 ballots. Yes, it makes sense, that's what's under dispute. But Judicial Watch and the Republican lawyers in that circuit courtroom a couple of hours ago argued I think somewhat persuasively that if you are going to send some up, why not send them all up?

But Judge LaBarga, as you said, has taken a narrower look at this and said, let's go along with what the Democrats want, we will send out just the 3600. Yes, that's what is under dispute here.

PHILLIPS: Bill Delaney, thank you for the update on the motion out of Palm Beach.

Roger, thanks for playing along there with us and sort of switching gears, appreciate it.

COSSACK: My pleasure.

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